Hey Shirley, your post on Chickory hit a few chords for me.. Have you ever read the book The Tao Of Equus by Linda Kohanov? if not it's a very good read and would suggest it to anyone with an open mind to feel their horses.. anyway, to the point I had a mare in last summer for training similar to Chickory and was having the same ups and downs and I was at the time reading this book and had a "ahh haa" moment. Your sentence is pretty much exactly true "I swear this horse can read my mind, because she only gives me her trust when I realize just how much she has to teach me." and here is why I say this.. the mare I had in came to me as a 5 year with a bucking problem, she would panic and buck . lucky for me she didn't have a lot of buck but enough to unnerve you! You could handle her any way you wanted do anything to her including all the Walt Vermatal stuff and she would just panic for what seemed no reason now and then and I could for the life of me could not figure out what would trigger it because it was so sporadic.
So here's the "aahh haa" moment it wasn't what I was doing to her that would trigger her reaction it was where my mind went! So then I realized when I was working her and was 100% there and 100% honest with her she was a sweetheart.. So this is the neat thing she taught me.. She didn't mind if I was grouchy, tired, lazy, nervous so long as I didn't try to hide how I was feeling from her.. Because when we hide this stuff from our horses they just see a mask cover us and we become predator to them there for they act out.. That mare taught me so much about not hiding what I am feeling from our horses that I in reality will never be able to pay her back for the lesson she taught me... I was honest with her from that day forward and even though the odd day I would think she's gonna buck as long as I didn't hide it she didn't buck, the dumb days that I reverted back to myself and hide those feelings from her she bucked..
So it even has turned to my everyday handling with our horses, we got a new little mare this winter who was hard to catch and we just kicked her out with the herd and I said to Bruce "No matter, when I go out to get her I'll simple walk out and be honest with her and catch her" she now follows me around the pasture and I haven't had a hard time catching her! I no longer think "This is going to scare this horse" I am simply honest with the horse in my mind, think about what the object looks like in my mind let my horse see it first through my mind and body and wa la it didn't spook that horse simply because I didn't freeze in my head that it was going to spook them.
I took on a job early this spring for a cutting barn near by.. they had 34 wild yearlings that needed handled.. I halter broke, taught to tie and trimmed 34 yearlings in 2 weeks and 3 days.. and I didn't not rush one colt, they just did it because they believed in me.. Even the ones that sold two days after bringing them in wild, they jumped right into their new horse trailers behind me no questions asked.. I schooled a young girl working at the barn with them whenever she had a spare moment and she is now able to walk out and catch whichever one she wants so long as she stays honest to them.
So just food for thought, because Chickory has always been jumpy you have that in the back of your mind so I am sure you get in a mind lock now and then and boom she reverts back because she cannot trust a creature who is trying to hide!
Remember that if you are not able to release all of your pre-conceived notion about her at least acknowledge them and don't try to ignore or hide them because she will know!
29 comments:
What a wonderful solution, honesty.
Just got all caught up on your posts. Good ones looks like you guys are getting a lot done. It sure is looking better around that place I hope the owner appreciates all your hard work.Your roses are going to bloom in the next few days or so. If you haven't got them by then I will take some pics for you.
Great post ! They do remind us to "keep it real"
Wow...so very different than what most trainers, clinicians, and horse people tell us....which is to always show confidence and strength with a horse, even if you really don't feel confidence and strength at all.
So a horse would rather us show our nervousness, fear, or lack of self-confidence, instead of pretending.
Does this apply to ALL horses? What about the super smart horses that seem to take advantage of riders that lack confidence? And does this mean that if we are nervous we shouldn't even work with a horse?
Very interesting. Something to think about.
~Lisa
Well in reality when you `Think`you are hiding your fear, nervousness or lack of self confidence your horse still knows you are nervous, sacred and aren`t sure of yourself, your aren`t as good of a lier as you think you are to your horse..
They literally depend on their abilities to read body language and moods of their predators in the wild, there for we are just not talented enough to hide it from our horses and just make them nervous to be around us because we are being fake!
I believe you horse no matter what type of horse you have temperment wise will appreciate you being honest with them and yourself.
I have found our whole herd to have changed the way they view me just because when I am honest when I go out there now, when I am grouchy and need a horse hug I go get it, and if I don`t hide that I am grouchy they are not on edge because of it. (we have very hot bred horses who are incredibly sensitive to little things like that)
The super smart horses no matter what you think you are hiding or not are only going to take advantage of those who are honestly not confident enough to control them, it really doesn`t matter if you are saying to the horse and yourself that you are tuff enough because the horse simply knows..
And in my opinion a nervous person can benefit greatly by being around a horse and working with a horse. Just have a good horse person you know help you find the right horse for you!
I really don`t want to hog anything here I just know Chili taught me that lesson last summer to share and help other people with it.
Tara
Tara, you are welcome to say whatever you want; I sure do agree with you that you can't hide your emotions from your horse. And in reality, why would you want to? If I'm nervous or fearful and try to hide it from my horse, I won't get anywhere because I create my own limitations just by my state of mind. If I'm humble and admit my state of mind, instead of trying to trick my horse into thinking I'm some big confidant leader, I get better results, as Chickory showed me last time I worked her. As soon as I had that moment, it's like we connected, and she became a trusting partner.
I am lurking and reading your blog for quite a while. Grab your award at my blog. :)
Love your gorgeous horses. Can't own one right now... hubby is in the military, my parents have a huge farm in Germany with over 60 horses.
Sandra
Very good sound advice, I will remember that one and hopefully be able to do that from now one. I will have to buy the book and read it.
You hit the nail on the head Shirley!
Tara
I'm still not totally convinced or sure about this philosophy. I've had many folks tell me, including my neighbor, "Don't get scared, get mad or tough"....and it has actually worked in digging deep to find some hidden confidence and strength.
Also, in regards to being honest with a horse and potraying grumpy feelings....and just going into a pasture and grabbing a horse to get a hug, many horses would get alarmed by that body language and emotion, because those feelings aren't typical horse behavior and a horse may wonder, "Are you grumpy with me? Maybe I need to skeedaddle!"
This reminds me of a moment after my mare injured me and I was finally able to walk on my own two legs to visit with her. This was a horse that normally always walked right up to me for petting, treats and haltering. No problems.
But that day, I was feeling sad and challenged because my walking was still very weak and it took me a quite a while to reach the paddock gate. I expected my mare to meet me there, but instead as soon as I opened the gate, she stared at me and walked away.
I limped towards her, with tears in my eyes and she moved away even faster turning her head with suspicion.
It broke my heart.
I stayed there in the paddock with tears streaming down my face for close to an hour, and I even had carrots and cookies, but my mare stayed away.
I posted about this on my blog last year and had many replies.
Most of them told me that my behavior probably seemed odd to my horse, and that sadness is not a typical or normal behavior for horses. They don't understand tears or weakness and will tend to stay away from that because in the wild, weakness of any horse in the herd can bring predators.
I know I was being completely honest with my horse that day and it didn't make a difference at all in regards to her trusting me. Instead she was quite honest with me.
~Lisa
Lisa, what a terrible experience for you ! I think that what BD , may have been responding to is your pain and fristration and maybe fear , she sounds like she was a fearfull horse as well and that situation just snowballed for you. While I agree with the "keep it real" premise I would also say there are some days that you are better to just walk away, honesty and all . when what is going on with you is just too much for you to listen to your horse ansd he/she to filter the "stuff" and listen to you . There is no shame in choosing to skip the battle for a better day
Yupe, I totally get this. No horse will trust you if you're not honest with them.
Im my opinion the reason your horse would not come to you after the accident is because you were being irrational, standing there crying is irrational.. I get that you were sad upset hurt. BUT you were standing there not feeling sad upset and hurt, you were standing there crying because YOU didn't know what to do with your emotions. So how was your horse suppose to know how to deal with your emotions??
Rising Rainbows you have to remember its not just being honest with the horse it's also being honest with yourself.
Also I want to note in the email to Shirley I stated in the beginning of the email "if not it's a very good read and would suggest it to anyone with an open mind to feel their horses.."
and again I stand by that, you need an open mind to feel your horse and if you are not ready or want to do that it is totally fine with me!
Also I am going to state, this is all my opinion and my opinion is just that, one opinion. In the larger scheme of things it could very well be as small as a grain of salt. But it works for me and I will do what works. So take what you want and leave all you don't, that's the only way to better ourselves.. And never forget that these after all are our horses and no one thing ever works!!
Also if you believe it won't work then you are most likely right it will not work! we can only do what we believe in!!
Tara
"Don't get scared, get mad or tough"....I can't say that this works for me. It only works if you are mad at yourself and calm down and walk away, or completely change what you were doing, because what you were doing wasn't working if you got mad. Getting scared is self-preservation; it usually means you are in a situation that is beyond you for whatever reason that applies to the moment. Getting tough wouldn't be honest with yourself and your horse probably would pick up on that.
Thanks Shirley, you are better with words then me!
Sometimes getting mad or tough can help you survive. It's also a way of self preservation. When dealing with something scary....like having to go through surgery, staring at a steep hill that you have to go down as there's no way other way around, preparing to ride a roller coaster, dealing with bad news with your family or friends.....getting tough is a helpful way to dig down deep and find the courage that we all do have. Fear and lack of self confidence just get in the way sometimes.
~Lisa
I don't know if I'm explaining myself right or not, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that feeling of being mad isn't directed at the horse...it is more of an internal struggle.....talking to yourself, telling yourself, "Cut it out. This situation isn't going to beat you. You are tougher than that. Now refocus and stop being so worried and afraid. You CAN do it!"
I have to internalize much of what I do around horses now after what happened with Baby Doll. I don't remember ever having such feelings of self-soubt and nervousness around horses before my previous horse continually tested me and hurt me. But I do, so the way I have to deal with that is by getting tough and not letting the 'deer-in-the-headlights' emotions take over.
My horse, Apache expects me to be confident, and the lesson I learned from my mare, Baby Doll, is that a weak leader, even if being she is being honest, is not a trustworthy leader.
~Lisa
Oh goodness. Sorry for posting so much today, but this is a very interesting subject to me.
I was just thinking how the same applies to horses in their fight of flight responses. Horses aren't always brave and courageous. Their first instinct is fear....which causes them to run fast and far away from new situations.
Sometimes they have to face that fear and be brave or even fight.
Or they can get tough and learn to deal with the unnatural things we humans expose them to in the name of domestication.
I don't think fear is always a healthy act of self preservation. Sometimes it holds us back from trying new things or pushing ourselves just a little bit farther...just as we do with horses while we train and work with them.
Sometimes we have to push that fear back into the farthest recesses of our minds and pull out that grit, determination, and toughness, even when we're still shaking in our boots.
I think a horse understands this on a basic level, because they do this in the wild.
And when we expect our horses to be brave and courageous when we are working with them, too.
~Lisa
I think you're getting it now, Lisa. Dealing with our own fears and inadequacies helps keep us honest because we have to evaluate ourselves and do what we can to make things better for ourselves and for those around us, including our horses. When I said,"Getting tough wouldn't be honest with yourself and your horse probably would pick up on that." I meant putting on a show of toughness, basically a bluff to try and make the horse think of you as a confidant leader- which won't fool the horse. We have to be hard on ourselves to make improvements in ourselves, or we would always be regressing. When you said, "Sometimes we have to push that fear back into the farthest recesses of our minds and pull out that grit, determination, and toughness, even when we're still shaking in our boots." you hit it- you acknowledge your issues, are being honest about them and are dealing with them. Your horse can tell that you aren't trying to hide anything.
I think you have come a long way from the day that you were in tears as your horse walked away from you, and it shows in how much Apache trusts you. The lessons that Baby Doll taught you were hard to learn. But you did learn them, and have progressed. Hugs to you, Lisa.
Yes I agree with Shirley you are getting it and also agree to lots of hugs. Horses make for a tough road but I wouldn't trade them for the world!
Lisa, I appreciate you putting in words my working theory of not being scared- get mad and tough. What it does for me is to override my fear and gives me a sense of self confidence that anything is possible and will be worked out. Yes, the anger is never directed at the horse but rather a way of sucking up the fear into a burst of bravado. The horses sense the "take charge" change and appreciate the leadership. If the rider is feeling a lack of confidence and fear, the horse senses it and takes it upon himself to take charge of the partnership and bad things often happen- spooks, runaways, and balky horses. I ride sensitive horses and the most important things I can give my horses is my sense of self confidence and an open mind. Knowing that we are a team and I am in charge makes for a happy relationship.
I have seen beginner riders begin to panic when their horse gets out of hand. When the rider adjusts her mindset, the horse calms down and responds. If the rider remains uneasy, the horse stays unsettled as well.
Many times if I am feeling out of sorts, I'll just ask for a good working trot or a gallop across the open fields, and really begin to concentrate on the workout until we are again both enjoying the ride.
I guess what I mean when I say to get mad instead of afraid means to FOCUS on the moment and that will build your self confidence up.
Tara said:
"Im my opinion the reason your horse would not come to you after the accident is because you were being irrational, standing there crying is irrational.. I get that you were sad upset hurt. BUT you were standing there not feeling sad upset and hurt, you were standing there crying because YOU didn't know what to do with your emotions. So how was your horse suppose to know how to deal with your emotions??"
Actually if you read my comment, you'd see that I did not enter into the paddock crying.
I was actually looking forward to and eager to visit with my horse, just to feed her a few carrots and cookies...no pressures and no expectation for her, only to do what she had always done in the past, which was to meet me at the gate and accept her treats.
Tears did not come into after she had walked away from me each time I got closer to her.
But even so, how many little girls and even adult women, have not buried their tear covered faces into their horse's mane after having a rough day? And the horse is patient and willing to let them do that?
You've got to understand this mare and I had a very close relationship on the ground. She would come running to me, away from a herd of 5 other horses in a pasture of over a couple hundred acres when I called her. I even posted video of her doing just that on my blog.
But this day, because I was weaker and not able to walk strong and confident, she turned away from me. Not because I was acting irrationally, nor because I was crying.
Also in reply to FernValley (Sherry), Baby Doll was never a fearful horse. She was very independent, confident and often times stubborn. She demanded a confident, strong leader at all times.
I suppose I could have just stayed away from my horse that day, but I hadn't seen her for a couple months due to the healing after my surgery and I just wanted to visit with her like old times.
I was looking for a battle at all....like I said, I was just there to offer her treats and maybe a butt scratch, her favorite thing.
Some might say she was holding a grudge against me for not being able to visit her for so long, but I don't think so. Do horses even hold grudges like that?
I think that to my mare I was just different, weaker, not as strong as she was used to me being, and even though I was being honest with and not trying to look stronger, she didn't trust me.
That is what I meant by Tara's statement about how, when she's grouchy, she just walks into the paddock and grabs a hug from a horse and they accept it because she's being honest.
I suppose grouchy behavior is more undestandable to a horse....and seems more forward and more confident.
I also suppose that if someone came barging into my bedroom with a grouchy demeanor and expected to grab me for a hug, I'd probably let them do it...because I'd be too afraid not to. lol!
Lots to think about...
~Lisa
Thanks Fantastyk Voyager (Val), You've taught me quite a bit about horsemanship and I appreciate it.
It's a journey where learning never stops, though, isn't it? :)
~Lisa
Thanks Shirley,
I apologize for hogging up your comment box with my introspective thoughts and curious questions.
I'm still not quite sure how some honesty with a horse is good while others aren't. If we're going to follow the theory of complete honesty of a horse than it should be across the board, right?
But it seems that some types of emotional honesty, like sadness or weakness, which is not as easily understood by a horse, is not the best emotion to reveal?
But revealing grouchiness to a horse is?
So, if I'm understanding this right.....When I'm feeling sad (without any irrational tears) I should avoid my horse and not seek her out for a hug.
But if I'm feeling grouchy and want a hug from my horse, than I should just go in there and get one.
And my horse will appreciate my honesty......
See...that's where I am confused.
I think I should just read this book that Tara found her information in and hopefully there will be better explanations and understanding.
~Lisa
LIsa , as I said what a rotten experience all the way around . So glad you stuck with it (in horses ) found Baby Doll a good home and brought home your darling Apache. Hope I didn't offend you with my comment
Oh no, Sherry, you didn't offend me at all. I just wanted you to know that Baby Doll wasn't fearful and that when I went to visit her in her paddock, there were no expectations and no pressure on her at all...well maybe just to accept the treats I had for her. lol!
But that's why I still don't completely understand why she would turn her back on me.
Ironically, I walked over to my neighbor friend's paddock (Fantastyk Voyager) and visited with her horses instead, and they were all happy to see me and nuzzled my face and let me get some hugs over the fence.
And unfortunately for Baby Doll, they got all her treats, too.
;-)
~Lisa
Lisa, when I'm feeling sad, I can go visit my horses and they let me cry in their manes if that's what I want to do. And if I'm having a bad day, I also can go and spend time with them. I think the point here is that if you are being up front no matter what your frame of mind is, then your horse will be able to "read" you and not be suspicious of you. Some horses can accept any emotions you have, like Beamer, and some will only accept you in certain ways, like Baby Doll.As in life, honesty is always the best policy, even if it doesn't get you what you want immediately; it will in the long run.
yup I am thinking we need to start a book club and we'll start with that book LOL
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